Re: [suse-security] suse-security-unsubscribe-gregf=bigtimegeeks.com@xxxxxxxx

[Martin Peikert <list@xxxxxxxxx>]

Hello,

Erik Hensema wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 16, 2003 at 10:44:11AM +0100, Martin Peikert wrote:
> > Erik Hensema wrote:
> > > Never EVER refer to the headers of a message. It's a pure and 
> > > simple fact that users can't (or won't) read them.
> >
> > if so, WTF are they doing here? It's a security mailing list and if
> >  a subscriber cannot or won't read a mail header, how do you think 
> > that person will secure a box? IMHO they got to learn how to use 
> > the tools they are playing with.
>
> Maybe they came to the conclusion that they indeed were not fit to 
> secure a box, and wanted to unsubscribe...

ok, one thing I didn't think of. Right. But those would better go on
reading that list...

> Anyway, I don't like that arrogant attitude of yoursi (and others on 
> the list, I am by no means targetting specifically you). You once 
> were a beginner too. Everybody was. Everybody here has made the same 
> stupid mistakes as the other (possible me a little more than the 
> others).

I don't think it's arrogant to point to a mail header. None of those
"unsubscribers" asked how to read a mail header. Yes, I agree, I was a 
beginner, too. But I tried to learn something - what I cannot see here 
if people are not willing to read a mail header.

> Please give beginners the opportunity to actually learn something, 
> instead of being rude to them. Phrases like 'go read the man page' 
> won't help, and 'go read the headers of the mail' won't help either.

If they'd like to learn something, they can ask - _after_ reading a man
page and asking their favorite search engine. If it's obvious that they
didn't read the man page (no matter why), such a "phrase" won't help
immediately, but maybe some of them they learn to do their homework by 
themselfes and *start to think*.

Therefore I don't think that telling such phrases is rude, it's really
rude what some of them do - asking questions that are already answered
in a man page or in an archive of a mailing list or news group.

> It's something I'd expect from a Debian mailing list, not from a SuSE
>  list.

Could you explain why you'd expect that in debian lists but not in
SuSE's? (Maybe PM, because it's really off-topic.)

> > > And rightfully so, because headers aren't meant to be read by 
> > > users.
> >
> > s/user/lamer/g
>
> Headers are for mailservers, mailclients and admins only. Not for 
> users. Really.

Since most of the threads are security related, I assume that most of 
the people here are admins. And not only users. But maybe I'm wrong...

Anyway, during the subscription process most of us received a mail (with
subject: WELCOME to suse-security@xxxxxxxx) containing:
---8<---
Please save this message so that you know the address you are
subscribed under, in case you later want to unsubscribe or change your
subscription address.

To unsubscribe, send a message to:

    <suse-security-unsubscribe-list=nolog.org@xxxxxxxx>
---8<---

Sometimes I think that some of the people here are not able or willing 
to read.

GTi


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