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Re: [suse-security] suse-security-unsubscribe-gregf=bigtimegeeks.com@xxxxxxxx


Erik Hensema wrote:
On Tue, Dec 16, 2003 at 10:44:11AM +0100, Martin Peikert wrote:
Erik Hensema wrote:
Never EVER refer to the headers of a message. It's a pure and simple fact that users can't (or won't) read them.

if so, WTF are they doing here? It's a security mailing list and if
a subscriber cannot or won't read a mail header, how do you think that person will secure a box? IMHO they got to learn how to use the tools they are playing with.

Maybe they came to the conclusion that they indeed were not fit to secure a box, and wanted to unsubscribe...

ok, one thing I didn't think of. Right. But those would better go on
reading that list...

Anyway, I don't like that arrogant attitude of yoursi (and others on the list, I am by no means targetting specifically you). You once were a beginner too. Everybody was. Everybody here has made the same stupid mistakes as the other (possible me a little more than the others).

I don't think it's arrogant to point to a mail header. None of those
"unsubscribers" asked how to read a mail header. Yes, I agree, I was a beginner, too. But I tried to learn something - what I cannot see here if people are not willing to read a mail header.

Please give beginners the opportunity to actually learn something, instead of being rude to them. Phrases like 'go read the man page' won't help, and 'go read the headers of the mail' won't help either.

If they'd like to learn something, they can ask - _after_ reading a man
page and asking their favorite search engine. If it's obvious that they
didn't read the man page (no matter why), such a "phrase" won't help
immediately, but maybe some of them they learn to do their homework by themselfes and *start to think*.

Therefore I don't think that telling such phrases is rude, it's really
rude what some of them do - asking questions that are already answered
in a man page or in an archive of a mailing list or news group.

It's something I'd expect from a Debian mailing list, not from a SuSE

Could you explain why you'd expect that in debian lists but not in
SuSE's? (Maybe PM, because it's really off-topic.)

And rightfully so, because headers aren't meant to be read by users.


Headers are for mailservers, mailclients and admins only. Not for users. Really.

Since most of the threads are security related, I assume that most of the people here are admins. And not only users. But maybe I'm wrong...

Anyway, during the subscription process most of us received a mail (with
subject: WELCOME to suse-security@xxxxxxxx) containing:
Please save this message so that you know the address you are
subscribed under, in case you later want to unsubscribe or change your
subscription address.

To unsubscribe, send a message to:


Sometimes I think that some of the people here are not able or willing to read.


Check the headers for your unsubscription address
For additional commands, e-mail: suse-security-help@xxxxxxxx
Security-related bug reports go to security@xxxxxxx, not here