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RE: [suse-security] suse-security-unsubscribe-gregf=bigtimegeeks.com@xxxxxxxx

If it's really that big a deal that we are going to write 12 emails
everytime someone goofs and tries to get off the mailing list I suggest suse
just put up an unsubscribe page where people can just put in their email
address and it unsubscribes them. Sure others could unsubscribe you
but......not bloody likely.

-Paul Shepperd
Swain Online
Ardmore PA, USA

-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Peikert [mailto:list@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 6:28 AM
To: suse-security@xxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [suse-security]


Erik Hensema wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 16, 2003 at 10:44:11AM +0100, Martin Peikert wrote:
>> Erik Hensema wrote:
>>> Never EVER refer to the headers of a message. It's a pure and
>>> simple fact that users can't (or won't) read them.
>> if so, WTF are they doing here? It's a security mailing list and if
>>  a subscriber cannot or won't read a mail header, how do you think
>> that person will secure a box? IMHO they got to learn how to use
>> the tools they are playing with.
> Maybe they came to the conclusion that they indeed were not fit to
> secure a box, and wanted to unsubscribe...

ok, one thing I didn't think of. Right. But those would better go on
reading that list...

> Anyway, I don't like that arrogant attitude of yoursi (and others on
> the list, I am by no means targetting specifically you). You once
> were a beginner too. Everybody was. Everybody here has made the same
> stupid mistakes as the other (possible me a little more than the
> others).

I don't think it's arrogant to point to a mail header. None of those
"unsubscribers" asked how to read a mail header. Yes, I agree, I was a
beginner, too. But I tried to learn something - what I cannot see here
if people are not willing to read a mail header.

> Please give beginners the opportunity to actually learn something,
> instead of being rude to them. Phrases like 'go read the man page'
> won't help, and 'go read the headers of the mail' won't help either.

If they'd like to learn something, they can ask - _after_ reading a man
page and asking their favorite search engine. If it's obvious that they
didn't read the man page (no matter why), such a "phrase" won't help
immediately, but maybe some of them they learn to do their homework by
themselfes and *start to think*.

Therefore I don't think that telling such phrases is rude, it's really
rude what some of them do - asking questions that are already answered
in a man page or in an archive of a mailing list or news group.

> It's something I'd expect from a Debian mailing list, not from a SuSE
>  list.

Could you explain why you'd expect that in debian lists but not in
SuSE's? (Maybe PM, because it's really off-topic.)

>>> And rightfully so, because headers aren't meant to be read by
>>> users.
>> s/user/lamer/g
> Headers are for mailservers, mailclients and admins only. Not for
> users. Really.

Since most of the threads are security related, I assume that most of
the people here are admins. And not only users. But maybe I'm wrong...

Anyway, during the subscription process most of us received a mail (with
subject: WELCOME to suse-security@xxxxxxxx) containing:
Please save this message so that you know the address you are
subscribed under, in case you later want to unsubscribe or change your
subscription address.

To unsubscribe, send a message to:


Sometimes I think that some of the people here are not able or willing
to read.


Check the headers for your unsubscription address
For additional commands, e-mail: suse-security-help@xxxxxxxx
Security-related bug reports go to security@xxxxxxx, not here

Check the headers for your unsubscription address
For additional commands, e-mail: suse-security-help@xxxxxxxx
Security-related bug reports go to security@xxxxxxx, not here